I recently saw a post on social media where someone was trying to make a case for pre-tribulation dispensational premillennialism. As someone who, after careful study, leans toward historic premillennialism myself, I figured I would look at the verses this individual cited and show how, while they may be used to support a pre-trib view, they do not necessarily support such an eschatology.
Below is the text of his post in italics, with my commentary interspersed in bold.
Friends? Here are how end times will happen- always remember this: the Antichrist WILL NOT be revealed until AFTER the rapture
- if the rapture happens? As a true Christian? You will be gone
We have a blessed hope --the rapture of the Church
Why do we believe Jesus will come before the Tribulation
1. He Bore Our Suffering
* He came as our substitute - to bear our sufferings, to heal our disease, to take our sins away No argument with that
*If He came to take our suffering - why would He let us suffer through the tribulation? If He came to take our suffering, why have Christians suffered in every age since Christ's ascension? Why are Christians in North Korea, Communist China, and Iran suffering?
*Why would He suffer such agony - and then turn around and let us suffer the same agonies? Same response as above.
Read 1 Thess. 5:9
God has not appointed us to wrath - that's not in His appointment book for Christians - but to obtain salvation from wrath by our Lord Jesus Christ This is not clearly about the Great Tribulation. It is more likely about the ultimate eschatological judgment where those who persist in rejecting God's plan of salvation in Jesus are cast into the lake of fire. See this video from Joel Richardson for more on that point. As Craig Keener and Michael Brown point out in their book Not Afraid of the Antichrist,
Paul's word that is translated "wrath" in 1 Thessalonians is the Greek term orgē. Every occurrence of this term in Revelation refers not to the Tribulation, but to the catastrophic judgment at its conclusion. (pp. 125-126—I highly recommend their entire treatment of this passage on pages 123-126)
Read Luke 21: 36 - Watch and pray - that you may be accounted worthy to "escape ALL" these things that shall come to pass. Let's look at the broader context of the passage. Verses 34-36 together say: "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man." Jesus starts out warning His disciples not to be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and anxiety, which would cause them to be suddenly surprised by "that day" which will "come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth." Praying that one may be able to escape the coming troubles doesn't really make sense if believers will be raptured away before those troubles come. As Keener and Brown point out, the term translated "escape" here is the same word used by Luke in Acts 16:27 and 19:16 for physically fleeing (p. 132). The only way this verse can "obviously" refer to a pre-trib Rapture is if one already holds to that eschatology and reads it into the passage (eisegeses).
2. Scripture tells us - He is coming back to the earth with the church
Remember - Post trib believers think He is coming to the earth and that the rapture will just be saints rising in the air to meet him and then fighting the battle of Armageddon.
Read Jude 14 - The Lord is coming with 10,000 of His SAINTS -
*Enoch said - saints - not angels - so before Jesus can come back to the Mt. of Olives - He has to rapture the saints to come back with Him. The Greek here is ἁγίαις (hagiais), which simply means "holy ones" (which is how in is translated in the NIV, CSB, CEB, ESV, and many other English versions). This could refer to humans or angels (or both) that are consecrated to the Lord. Even if it is only referring to human saints, it could be referring to those who have died and gone to be with the Lord before His return (including faithgul Old Testament believers) . So again, this verse does not necessarily support a pre-trib view, and can really only do so if one already presupposes dispensational eschatology. (As an aside, if we go with the translation that says "10,000" as this poster did, does that mean only ten thousand are coming with the Lord? If so, and the pre-trib view is correct, then is would seem that a very paltry number are raptured. The Greek word here is μυριάς (myrias), from which we get the word "myriad," and while it can mean the definite number 10,000, it is frequently translated as "countless" or "thousands upon thousands.")
Read Colossians 3:4
When Christ appears - you will appear with Him in glory
* That speaks of His return to the Mount of Olives - and we the saints will be with Him
Yes, the saints will be with Jesus when His feet touch down on the Mount of Olives. This in no way necessitates a pre-tribulation Rapture with the saints being in heaven with Christ for seven years. As is pointed out in discussions about 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, and meeting the Lord in the air, the language is that of a delegation going outside the city to meet a visiting dignitary or ruler, and escorting him into the city as a sign of welcome by loyal subjects.
So the purpose of the first Coming of Christ was to prepare the Bride - to prepare the elect - those who will make Him King over their lives and live for Him now
When that bride has been prepared - Christ will come in the Rapture
Read 1 Thess. 4: 15 - 18
1. 1 Thess. 4:16 - The return "The Lord Himself descends from heaven with a shout"
2. 1 Thess. 4:16 - The resurrection "The dead in Christ shall rise first"
3. 1 Thess. 4:17 - The Rapture "Then those who are alive and remain shall be caught up together"
4. 1 Thess. 4:17 - The Reunion "... caught up together - with them (the dead in Christ) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air"
5. 1 Thess. 4:18 - The Reassurance "and so shall we ever be with the Lord"
How will this happen
Again, there is nothing explicit in this passage about the timing of this relative to the Great Tribulation. It can be taken in a pre-trib sense, but it does not have to be taken that way. In fact, someone would probably only take this text as supporting a dispensational pre-trib schema if that is the eschatological system they already hold. Christians over many centuries read these verses without any hint that they referred to a pre-tribulation Rapture. Paul's language throughout his letters consistently speaks of the resurrection of the saints and the Second Coming interchangeably (Brown and Keener, p. 148). Further, "If the extent of Jesus' descent might be debated, the sound effects are much harder to dispute. Paul does not depict a secret call to believers that the world cannot hear" (Brown and Keener, p. 149). The shout and the trumpet call are not inaudible, and trumpets commonly announced the arrival of a king to a locale. We are not meeting with Jesus in the sky on our way to another realm, but we are meeting Jesus in the air to welcome our King as He comes to exercise the dominion that is rightfully His on this earth.
Read 1 Cor. 15: 51 - 52
1. We will not all sleep (be dead when Christ returns)
2. BUT - we shall all be changed (given a new body)
3. In a moment - in a twinkling of an eye (lightning fast)
4. at the last trump - trumpet shall sound
5. dead raised first and we (dead and alive) shall be changed
Once more, there is nothing in this text explicitly about the timing of the resurrection in relation to the Second Coming of Christ—no explicit gap of seven years between the two events. Matthew 24:29-31 (a passage not mentioned at all in the list of texts provided in the original post) also speaks about the Son of man dispatching His angels with the sound of a loud trumpet, but that trumpet comes "right after the tribulation of those days" and includes gathering His elect from the four winds. Now, some may argue that Jesus is here speaking of the "tribulation saints" who are saved during the seven-year period between the Rapture and the Second Coming. But one can only say that about this passage if one already holds to the dispensational pre-tribulational system. But the text as it is written seems to align better with a historic premillennial view.
Read Philippians 3:21
Our bodies will be changed to be like Christ's resurrected body - eternal, touchable, will not age, never get sick , glorious This verse has nothing to do with the debate about the timing of the Rapture, whether it occurs before or after the Great Tribulation.
Read 1 John 3:2
We don't know exactly what we will be - but when He appears - we shall be like Him I make the same observation here as on the previous verse cited. Are these verses about the resurrection body simply included here to make it look like the pre-Tribulation view has a lot of supporting passages in Scripture, so people will simply see a long list of biblical citations and assume they all mean what the person providing the list wishes people to conclude, without critically evaluating them in context?
So we will be changed into a glorified body - the dead and the living will quickly ascend into the clouds to meet Him
* This is different than the return of Christ to the earth - the battle of Armageddon An assertion is made here that the catching up of believers is a separate event from the Second Coming, but with no argumentation or reasoning to establish what is being asserted.
Read Revelations 19: 11 and V 14 I'm going to let my snarky biblical studies side loose for a minute and point out that the name of the book is "Revelation" without a final "s." Anyone who wants to be taken seriously in eschatological discussions needs to keep that in mind. Pluralizing the name of the book shows a lack of attention to details which colors how people will view all your other arguments on the topic.
He will appear on a white Horse - and the armies of heaven (us ) follow Him on white horses - clothed in fine linen - white and clean - (the Redeemed) It is true that in almost every instance of white linen garments being mentioned in Revelation, such garments are worn by the saints of God (though in other places in the New Testament we see angles also described as wearing white linen). But one thing to keep in mind here is that in Greek, there are not separate words for "heaven" as the abode of God and what we call "sky." The way Jewish people thought of the universe in the first century included three heavens: the atmosphere or sky immediately above the earth; outer space where the stars and planets were; and the third heaven, where God's throne was. This text is not necessarily saints coming with Jesus from the "heavenly realm" or throne of God, but from their meeting with Christ "outside the city" and returning with Him as he arrives triumphant. (Regarding the white horses, if they are literal and not symbolic, then it is just as easy for Jesus to provide them through instant materialization as the risen saints are gathered in the air as it is for God to have physical horses in heaven waiting for the saints to mount them at the end of the Tribulation.)
So let me go over the reasons why we believe in a pretribulation rapture and not a post tribulation rapture
1. God is a loving Father who is not going to punish or abuse an obedient child by making them go through suffering - God only punishes the rebellious In the book of Exodus, when the judgments are being poured out on Egypt due to Pharaoh's refusal to let the Israelites go, only the first three plagues—water turned to blood, frogs, and swarms of gnats— affect both the Egyptians and Israelites. The fourth plague and those following only impacted the Egyptians, with God's people in Goshen being unaffected. For the final and most devasting judgment—the death of the firstborn—the children of Israel were still present in Egypt (the Exodus had not yet occurred), but were protected by following God's instructions through Moses concerning the Passover lamb. As Brown and Keener write, "Without a doubt, this account confirms the post-Tribulation position, namely, that God can preserve His people here on the earth while He pours out His wrath on the very same earth (p. 89).
2. In Genesis - Enoch was a type of the church - walked with God and then he was not (He was raptured) for God took Him Normally, in the study of biblical typology, a type is a person or event in the Old Testament that foreshadows a person or event in the New Testament, and the New Testament writer is clear in pointing out the typology. I am not aware of any passage in the New Testament that connects Enoch to the church in a typological fashion, so while it might be possible that this assertion is correct, there is no scriptural warrant for the claim.
* This happened because God was about to judge the earth with a flood
* This gives us comfort to know that God will take us before the great judgment Again, the Bible is clear that God can protect His people in the midst of judgment surrounding them, without having to completely remove them from the scene.
3. Jesus gave His life in love - no man can show more love than if He lay down His life for His brother
* Why would a loving Redeemer - who gave his life for His bride - let His bride suffer? One could just as easily ask why God allows His children in Iran, China, India, and other parts of the world to suffer. Doesn't He love them? People making the argument stated here forget that Jesus warned us that in the world we will face tribulation, but we need not fear it, because He has overcome the world, and if we stay united to Him, we take part in that overcoming. When Paul and Barnabas are returning to Antioch from their first missionary journey, they visit the churches they have previously founded and remind them, "We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).
Difference between Raptured Saints - and Tribulation Saints
1. Tribulation saints have to die for their faith and testimony - would not take mark of the beast Rev. 13: 15
- Raptured saints had Jesus who died for our faith and testimony
Again, what about the saints over the past 2000 years who have refused to give their thoughts (represented by the forehead) and their actions (represented by the right hand, which symbolized one's strength) to the antichrist powers that have existed in every age, and have sealed their testimony for Jesus with their lives? What makes modern Western Christians think they will somehow be exempt from possibly facing the same test of allegiance?
2. Tribulation saints will be in heaven Rev. 15: 2,3 This verse proves nothing concerning two classifications of saints. All believers in Christ who die prior to His second coming are gathered around the throne in heaven, awaiting the resurrection when Christ returns.
3. Will be beheaded for their faith - will get to be resurrected after the battle of Armageddon to live with Christ during the Millennial (1000 year) Reign of Peace
*This is called "the first resurrection - the resurrection of the just"
Rev. 20:4,5 Note that this is the first resurrection. And it happens at the time of Christ's return to establish the millennial reign. "If one reads Revelation pre-millennially, as all pre-Tribulationists do, no resurrection of the saints appears before the first resurrection. The first resurrection appears in Revelation 20:4-5, where it contrasts with the second death. Since those resurrected there include those beheaded for not worshiping the Beast (see verse 4), it seems a bit late for a pre-Tribulational Rapture" (Brown and Keener, p. 138).
-- At the end of the 1000 year peaceful reign of Christ upon the old earth - the wicked dead will be resurrected for judgment at the Great White Throne of Judgment
* God the Father will open the Lamb's Book of Life - see if their name has been written - if they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior
* This is when God will separate the goats from the lambs - the chaff from the wheat
Historical premillennialism (post-Tribulation Rapture) also believes these points. These particular biblical facts have nothing to do with a distinction between "raptured saints" and "tribulation saints."
We are told in the Bible about 3 different kinds of resurrections
1. The Raptured Dead - the dead saints of the ages - both Old and New Testament - those justified by faith (Abraham's seed) - and those justified by the blood (Believers)
2. The Just Dead - the tribulation saints
3. The Wicked Dead - those bound for the lake of fire who are held in "Sheol" Hebrew for "Hell" "Hades" - temporary place of punishment and judgment
When the wicked are resurrected and called from hell - their own bodies will reunite with the soul -- an eternal body that will feel pain and judgment -- and they will go into the lake of fire, a place of everlasting punishment where the worm does not die, and there is outer darkness and gnashing of teeth. This will be the final separation from Christ, heaven, and His saints.
These first two can also simply be classified as "the righteous dead" without separating them into two groups who are resurrected at different times. Notice how the originator of this list calls the first group the "raptured dead," thus assuming the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture making this a separate group. The text of Scripture actually only talks about two resurrections: the first at the parousia of Christ at His second coming, when the righteous are raised (Rev. 20:4-5, which includes those "beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus" — this kind of defeats the idea of the tribulation saints partaking of a separate resurrection), and the second before the final judgment (Rev. 20:11-13; note that although Revelation doesn't explicitly use the word "resurrection" here, it does speak of death and Hades giving up the dead that were in them, which could be understood as either a physical resurrection, or a release of the souls that were being held there awaiting judgment).
We have a lifetime to accept the blood of Christ that was shed for us. Or if Christ returns in the rapture, people who have not accepted His sacrifice will have to endure the tribulation and reject the mark of the beast. The time to turn to Christ is today. Trust Him.
Certainly the time to turn to Christ is today, as none of us is guaranteed tomorrow. We could die in our sleep tonight, in an accident, or due to a medical incident.
I look at eschatology through a modified version of Pascal's Wager. I should prepare myself as though Christians will be on earth during the tribulation period, so that I can stand firm when the trials and tests come (many of our brothers and sisters around the world are already facing trials and tests of their allegiance to King Jesus not unlike what the Antichrist will put believers through). If it turns out that I'm wrong, and Jesus does rapture believers out of here before the Great Tribulation begins, then I lose nothing, and will be "pleasantly surprised." On the other hand, if I am banking on a pre-trib Rapture to take me away before things get really tough, and that doesn't take place, I may find myself woefully unprepared to face things, and even run the risk of apostatizing based on feelings of having been duped and misled.
In any event, the key is living a life of allegiance to Jesus the saving King. As long as that is my goal, I can leave the details of the end times up to Him.
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